INTERVIEW WITH DANIELE
DELBENE
The United States of Europe, social justice and the
dictatorship of the time
The
post-human revolution, the left and the keys to understand
the future. Reflections on a new critical approach against
the orthodoxy of unique thought.
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by
Vito
Fiorino
(journalist)
Daniele Delbene,
former president of the PSE National Constituent Assembly and member
of the national consultation table of Italian Socialism. In recent
days you launched a manifesto on the United States of Europe
centered on a new model of social justice. A manifesto that had a
great success and thousands of interactions on social media among
the youngsters. Why do you think a new European role cannot ignore
the social question?
The
institutions must be a tool to guarantee all men the conditions
necessary to emancipate and realize themselves. Only socio-economic
emancipation allows men to be truly free. Otherwise, all the rights
will be restricted to those few who will afford havin them
guaranteed. To allow everyone to be free, we must therefore
redistribute wealth better. And this can only be accomplished with
rules at a global level, or at least at an European level".
In your opinion,
the United States of Europe should be conceived starting from a new
approach on the topic of the transfer of sovereignty and the
division of competences between member states and the European
Union. What hasn't worked so far and what do you propose?
In recent
years the European Union has been an instrument not at the service
of the European people, but dominated by bureaucrats and technocrats
who did not know how to look beyond what was there and to rules that
are not democratic but are the result of a global financial system
controlled by a few. The pandemic has alsodemonstrated to those who
were used to not look beyond their front door that even to live
selfishly, locked in their own apartment, there is a need for
policies that go well beyond national borders. This applies to
maintaining peace, to redistributing wealth, to guaranteeing rights
and freedom. Finance, taxation, trade, defence, work, environment,
health and civil protection will therefore have to be managed at an
European level".
United States of
Europe, Europe of the Regions were the slogans of the European
socialism in the rich elaboration that developed from many fronts in
the last century. Do you think that the technocratic drift of the
current Europe can be fixed with this recipe?
Of
course, but we need to be careful when we talk about United States
of Europe, or rather we need to understand how the proponents
imagine them. By United States of Europe we intend precisely the
tool to allow men to emancipate themselves economically and
socially, to allow them to fulfill themselves and be able to enjoy
the pleasures that life offers, and to guarantee peace and freedom.
Others imagine the United States of Europe on the American model.
The United States of America are a great democracy with many civil
rights but little social justice and therefore true freedom is for
few. For example, everyone has the right to be cured when ill, but
as a matter of fact only those who can afford it get medical
assistance."
How can Europe,
which in the current context is struggling to carve out a role for
itself in the spheres of influence of the great global powers, even
become an engine for internationalizing the rights?
By
becoming a true and democratic political Europe, which can
represent, with the characteristics mentioned above, the embryo
hence the prerequisite for the construction, in the future, of the
United States of the World: the only instrument capable of
guaranteeing global peace and freedom.
What do you mean by
saying, in the manifesto, that there's a need to build international
representative bodies that promote the fight against inequalities?
International
organizations must be an expression of the people they represent and
therefore of their interests. Not instruments controlled by a few
unknown people appointed by no one knows who. The primary interest
that all people have in common is represented by social justice,
freedom, peace and the possibility of living one's life. Equality
does not mean everyone being equal, but rather allowing everyone to
be able to realize themselves based on their abilities, their
commitment and their merits. This must be the task and the aim of
supranational organizations."
The progress,
intended as technological progress, has risked as never before to be
antithetical to the theme of social achievements. Artificial
intelligence will revolutionize the world of work as we conceive it
today. The comparison with the old industrial revolution seems
obvious, but the dimensions of AI's impact definitely go beyond
post-humanism. How can we be prepared?
If
progress is understood as an improvement to the conditions and life
expectations of men, it can only be welcome. There is no need to be
afraid of progress: it is an irreversible path, you can slow it
down, but you cannot prevent it. The point is an other".
Which one?
Progress
must be governed. And to govern it you need to be able to anticipate
it by imagining today what it will be tomorrow. And if there are
democratic organizations founded on principles of social justice and
freedom to anticipate it, imagine it and govern its processes, then
progress can represent the realization of a better world for all
men".
Let
everyone work to make everyone work less is one of the cornerstones
of your manifesto. Is this a realistically achievable goal in your
opinion?
It is not
just an aim, but also a need resulting from the progressive
reduction of the need for manpower. This is not only an achievable
goal, but also an unavoidable priority. Obviously, to allow everyone
to work less with a salary that not only does not decrease but on
the contrary is adapted to the real needs of life, there is a need
to better redistribute wealth, at least in a European context. This
is also why we need European policies be common to all member
countries. But without looking at tomorrow, a lot can already be
done today in this direction, by spending the available resources
better".
Please clarify.
Today the
system, with a sharply decreasing number of jobs even compared to
the increase in the population, forces men to work an increasingly
higher number of years and this inevitably determines that their
children and younger people in general find a decent employment at
an increasingly higher age. The State as a whole wastes enormous
resources on subsidies for young people ("citizen's income",
unemployment, various local and national incentives). So, on one
hand, the system wastes resources to leave on the couch those who
have the energy and the desire to contribute to the future, those
who need to build a family and a life. And on the other hand, it
forces to go on working those who, after years of hard work, have
less energies, less enthusiasm and would finally need to be able to
enjoy life. It would be a matter of immediately reversing the
current spending - and we would already have the resources to slow
down the increase in the retirement age and to review the working
hours. Unless seeing men always suffocated by uncertainties,
difficulties and lack of free time turns out to be an advantage for
someone."
How can rescuing
the time we have lost, to measure the quality of life through
different lenses, realistically become a political objective?
We must
seize the opportunities to accelerate standing in front of us. We
cannot just imagine a better world for the future, we must have the
ambition to be able to pursue it starting from the present - in the
interest not only of the future generations but also of the current
ones. The European elections will be held in a few months. Great:
let them be an opportunity to discuss, confront and implement the
acceleration I have mentioned."
In the national
political debate in view of the next European elections, the engines
have not yet warmed up. Your manifesto seems to hope for the birth
of a new idea that doesn't yet exist. On what legs should this idea
walk and where should it be located?
In order
to imagine a new society and a better world, we must be able to
escape from the unique thought dictated by the current model. The
current political forces in recent decades have not been able to do
this. They have looked at the world in black and white, where white
meant good and black meant evil. We need political forces capable
first of all of looking at the world in colour."
What is missing
from the Italian and European left to become representative again?
For years, progressive forces have appeared displaced and harmless.
The
problem is not what the left is missing, it's that THE left is
missing! Let me clarify. The left should not be seen as a
geographical place. What in recent years has identified itself as
'the left' has often been the expression of blind political forces,
which on the one hand have accepted all the rules imposed by society
and on the other have been victims of old ideological preclusions.
That left that has only been able to distinguish between good and
bad has been one of the first responsible for the growing social
malaise that is affecting Europe. We need new and vital forces,
animated by a new socialist humanism that can represent its heart
and brain. We need new men and women who know how to dream and who
have not been protagonists in politics in recent decades."
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